How To Succeed With M&A Integration Before The Deal Is Done

Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the M&A Diaries. It's great to have you on. Apologies once again, it's taken so long for us to get here, but we are. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. For those that don't know you, it'll be great to hear a little bit about your background, what you do now, and give us a bit of context. Yeah. Nice to meet you as well. I am the Chief Operating Officer at High Rock Accounting. Previously, I was with a firm and we successfully integrated four firms together via acquisition. So I think I bring a unique perspective really, having been on both sides. So having been acquired as an employee and then also leading integrations as a buyer, I'll say it was quite a rollercoaster learning and going through the journey of integrating firms together. And my goal really is to just be able to share this knowledge that I feel very fortunate to have. So that way it can help other firm owners learn from both my mistakes and my success, and that way they can use that as they are integrating firms together. And it's great that you've got that perspective from both sides, right? Being an

employee that has been integrated as well as then running the project as such on the integration side. So for yourself and the role that you play in the transactions, in an ideal scenario and world, when would be the best time to involve someone like yourself to make sure that pre and post deal or the integration is as seamless as possible? Yeah. So that is a really, really great question. So I actually believe that integration starts before you even get to the LOI. So just like businesses have what they call their ICPs or ideal client profiles, when you're going to acquire a firm, I like to call it your IBPs, your ideal business profile. So your IBP framework is really going to cover the cultural alignment. Will this firm fit with your culture and operations? What's the operational compatibility? Are the systems and processes compatible? What's the team dynamics? How do your compensation models align? And in your service delivery, do your approaches match? And when you're really, really clear about the firm that you are looking at and how they're actually fit in with both the culture and their

operations, I feel like you're going to save yourself a massive headache because you're pre-aligning everything that needs to be aligned. So integration for me doesn't start at closing. It actually starts before the LOI or the letter of intent is actually ever even issued. So the earlier, the better for you to be involved and start helping those teams start thinking about the right things. And we'll come on to some of that discussion later on about what acquirers should be looking for and equally what the sellers can do to help with the transition period as well. That's really useful to know. You mentioned a couple there about culture, people, teams, and client. If you were to categorize some of the main areas that everybody should be aware of or looking at for successful integration, what would they look like? Yeah. So in my opinion, people and culture is going to be your most critical aspect. So in this industry, your employees are the most important part of the success in the integration and in the success of your acquisition. Without the people, you have nothing. So you really have

to be careful and critical about that. You're ultimately buying employees, right? We're not, we're technically hiring them and they, they're humans. And the human element of people and culture is very unpredictable. And so you just have to make sure that there's a really, like a very strong cultural alignment between the two organizations to be able to merge them together, to be able to retain the revenue. So I'd say that's number one. Number two for me is systems and technology. You want to make sure that your tech stacks are aligned, that you've got master access to everything. There's a lot that you have to think about as you're integrating a firm together of like, what is going to be our, our Bible of like, this is our tech stack. This is what we're doing. How does this new firm fit into it? And then beyond that, it's like, you know, client relationships, operation and process. But in my opinion, the people in the culture is the number one driver that makes a acquisition fail or be successful. Yeah, I could agree more. And I think that's a running theme from everyone that's been a seasoned

acquirer of they, you know, they might have failed or not in the first place, but they really now zone in on that culture element. And you know, the thing that always gets said is happy, happy staff, happy team, happy clients, right? So that's going to, that's going to keep everything working well. And it's interesting on the, on the tech piece that you're saying there actually as well, because I think a few years back, it was very much looked upon that you had to have a certain software. If the, if the acquirer was using Xero or Sage or Iris, whatever it may well be, they would want to make sure that any firms they were acquiring had the same tech stack as such. I think the game, the world has changed and evolved now because obviously it's easier to migrate, integrate from using other technologies, but nevertheless, it's still important from your perspective to make sure that you're going to be aligned in that next step, next chapter, right? Exactly. Yeah. So a lot of the integrations that I was a part of, you're actually streamlining the tech stack, right? So when you are looking at a company that you're trying to acquire, you have to look at it from all the different angles. And if you're going to acquire them, that means that you also need to increase your ROI, right? Like what, what changes can we make

that will increase our ROI from this acquisition? And a lot of times it's streamlining processes, it's creating efficiencies, putting them on a different technology or tech stack that will be aligned. And one of the biggest mistakes that we actually made was that we were diversified across too many tech stacks. And then you try to bring all the information to one place. And it's like, it's, it's floating everywhere. How do you, how do you then streamline all that information and get everything in the data that you need to make decisions? And that's where that integration piece comes into play. You can't be, you know, fractured across all these different softwares. You really have to hone in and create efficiencies and processes within specific softwares or tech stacks that you can then expand upon. So think about like building a solid foundation for your company. Yeah. And of course, as well, if you, when you go along your acquisition journey, you may well find that the target business or practice actually has better tech stack in certain areas as you, so you just adopt the best in class and move on. Correct. Yeah. And then that's a journey, right? It's something that I learned along the way. We weren't necessarily

doing everything the best that we could, or maybe, you know, like there was a better sales software. We were using pipe drive. They were using HubSpot as their CRM, like it just the cream of the crap. And so it's like, okay, well, what do we need to do to make sure that we are all aligned together, moving in the same direction and that we have the data that we need to make decisions. And that's where that tech integration comes together. Lovely. Fantastic. And we'll move into the other areas in a bit more of a deeper dive conversation later on, but from an acquirer's point of view there, obviously from your own experiences, anybody that's a first time acquirer of those categories that you just, you just set out for us, where do you find most time that a first time buyer would fall down on or what category they don't necessarily always look at specifically when they should be? Yeah. So I think that an area that people that are looking to acquire are they're, they get blinded by this like shiny, shiny new car center. Right. So they assume that everyone's going to be excited about the acquisition. And I think the reality check

from that is like, we all understand that the general nature of most accountants is that they didn't go into accounting because they love change, right. They went into this industry because there's consistency, there's rules, there's science behind it. And so I think that buyers invest all this time in the buying process because they're so excited. They want to make sure that the financial due diligence is done correctly, that, you know, all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed, but that's kind of like buying a shiny new car. And if they could take a step back and think about what the reality of this acquisition looks like from an integration perspective, from a people and culture perspective and do that work upfront, then they aren't so blinded by this excitement of acquiring this company. So I think as much investment time that people put into the buying process, they need to do the same amount or more in the integration process. And I guess all the way through this communication is going to play such an important role. You go back to accountants don't necessarily like change, but if it's out there in front of them discussed ahead of time, they can wrap their head around it, plan or put things in place that

they need to. So yeah, on the communication piece, what have you got to say on that? Yeah. So this is something that I learned and learned the hard way, right. When we were acquired, I was the first acquisition to be rolled into this company. We were told the day that the paperwork was signed that, hey, you're being acquired and you have 24 hours to sign your employment agreement. And if you don't sign your employment agreement, then guess what? You don't have a job, right? And so that kind of communication is scary. And I think it's a really high risk approach to surprise your employees on closing day that, hey, bam, this is what's happening. So something that I've learned is you have to be 10 steps ahead of their thinking. So you can't think about change management without thinking about everything that's going on and how other people are going to perceive it. So you have to think about it and tell them before they even think about it. So the employees are thinking about, well, what happens to my clients? What happens with my job? What happens with my

boss? These job security fears creep in. And so one of the best approaches that I think is that if you can get some reassurance and confidence in your seller that the deal is going to close and that the seller will allow you to communicate with your employees ahead of the close. So I've seen it both ways. I've seen where we were acquired and we were told on the day, and moving forward, we took that lesson of how our team felt. And in our next acquisition, we actually got the seller's agreement to communicate ahead of time, ahead of the close, which helped remove this resistance and questions and everything else. I think sellers resist that because they're afraid that the deal won't go through, right? Their whole team knows, they're thinking of selling, employees leave, it jeopardizes client relationships. And a compromise to that is that it doesn't have to be all of the employees that you tell. It could just be the key employees or the leadership team that you're bringing over and getting their buy-in before the actual close. So that way the rest of the employees, they're going to look at their key leaders for guidance, for reassurance. And so there's value

not only in that, but there's also value in bringing in those key leaders during due diligence. Most business owners, they might not be involved in the day-to-day aspects anymore. So you're going to get that true institutional knowledge from the people that are actually involved in the day-to-day. And so different kind of pieces of communication and how you communicate an acquisition. But I have found from my journey in the M&A world that being 10 steps ahead and also being able to pre-communicate or communicate pre-close with either key employees or all employees makes for a much better experience for everybody. Yeah. And that key employee element, that really is part of the pre-transaction integration as well, to get to understand the people and the culture, especially if the owners of the business, as you said, are not necessarily involved day-to-day in the operating of that particular practice. But it is interesting because I've seen some, as you can imagine, some stories over the years. And as you were talking there, there was two particular circumstances that arose. There's one pretty decent firm in England, and they've been speaking to a private equity-backed platform

for some time. I think it was about a week out from the acquisition. The PE house were like, we'd love to speak to the rest of the team and let them know ahead of time. The seller picked up the phone to me. There was still a few things in the contractually that need to get over the line. So I said, look, try and get a couple of those bottomed out. Anyway, they decided to go with the PE house, the acquirer that was coming in. And unfortunately, two days before the acquisition went through, after they've told the entirety of the team, the private equity had a different leader put in place. And they had a completely different strategy and didn't feel that that particular acquisition no longer fit in that strategy. So they reround out of that acquisition. That caused all sorts of chaos. The owner of the business was on the phone in a panic. I've got my team that think we're moving into this now. They've now got to wonder why they're not moving forward with the acquisition. So that was an interesting one to navigate through. But then on the flip side, there was a law firm recently as well, where they actually found out in the press. They found out in the law gazette that they had

been bought out. And even some of the partners of that firm, salary partners, were not aware that they would get bought out. And they found out by the press because it got released at like half seven in the morning. And they were all driving into the office later on that day. And they were about to get told that. So that was a bit of a slip up. And that's an extreme circumstance there. But yeah, can you imagine finding out that you've no longer maybe got a job or you're not going to got the same employer through the press? No, I couldn't. I couldn't imagine. I mean, I know how it felt to be told the day of the acquisition, right? And I think that's the norm for most people. I think most sellers are not comfortable with sharing this information because it just puts them in an awkward position for exactly like you said, like a deal could follow through until the ink is dry, like nothing is set in stone. But on the flip side, that miscommunication caused all kinds of panic for that law firm that they had to find out from the press. That is not the way that you want to go into an acquisition.

And then it makes them question everything that you do. Every decision that you make from that point forward, once that trust is like, I don't know if I could trust you, then it becomes this kind of wall that you have to break through with change management and getting that buy-in. So that's why even if they won't let you communicate with all of the employees, getting those key employees bought into the vision and direction that you're going is essential because those employees then look up to those key leaders and they are able to, there's a trusted relationship there that they're able to get some comfort from. Yeah, absolutely. And in my experience as well, if it is just the leadership group that are aware of the conversations that are ongoing, pretty soon after the acquisition, you want to get the CEO or MD of the acquiring business into the office of the party that it's acquired to meet the rest of the team. Again, just to reassure them, create that rapport with them so they know that you can actually touch and feel the firm that's acquiring it. Yeah. I also think it's important that you share timelines too, right? So when you acquire these

employees, there's a lot of questions up in the air. So I think that there's two keys to it, that everyone learns and communicates differently. So you need to have written communication, in-person meetings, one-on-one meetings, group sessions, check-ins with all the employees, regular check-ins with the employees. But I think it's important to set the expectation and create the timeline. So that way they know exactly what to expect. They know what the transition periods are going to look like, whether it's going to be six weeks, eight weeks, six months, 12 months. They're going to need to understand the vision and be aware of what's going on. And really the main priority for them is not the acquisition. It's not the integration. It's the clients. And the goal with acquiring another accounting firm is that you retain the clients and you retain that client relationship. So a lot of the change that happens really shouldn't happen. The clients shouldn't see a lot of that in the very beginning. It really should just be internal changes and minor changes. I'm talking the first six months, you're communicating, this is what you can expect in the first six months, and this is what you can

expect in the next six months after that. And really laying it out so it's clear and there's no questions. That's great because that kind of leads me into the next question I was going to come on to you. In terms of your playbook, the Ashley Rodham playbook for implementing changes, what do you move first? What do you look at first? When, the timing of, etc. If you've got a timeline in your mind of the ideal scenario, yeah, it'd be great if you could set that out for all the people listening. Yeah. So I think it's really important that you have a whole integration team. So you should assign specific roles and responsibilities to individuals. So in my due diligence, I created a RACI chart. Here's who's responsible. Here's who's accountable. Here's who should be consulted. And here's who just needs to be informed of the decisions that need to change. And so I break it down into different departments. So you've got your HR, your people lead. You've got your operations lead, your client lead, your IT systems lead, and your finance lead. And you need this because, in my opinion, I have a 100-day checklist and it's

got really, really clear instructions. But you can't assume that everybody knows exactly what they need to do. This might be the first acquisition that they're going through. And so you need to be very detailed. But day one priorities for me is payroll must be perfect. You can't mess up payroll when you're doing these. So system access has to be seamless, no disruptions to the daily operations. That first payroll is critical to your success with these new employees. And then it's just understanding and getting to know the employees. Your first one to seven days, I think of that as your foundation period for doing employee orientation. Addressing any concerns that they have. You're contacting your top 20% of high value clients. Establishing rhythms and operational capacity and understanding what's going on within the company. And then you just want to stabilize everything. So you're introducing yourself to all these clients as, hey, we just acquired you. Nothing's changing. Your client contact is the

same. It's just business as usual. Yeah. And so then it's like this stabilization period where you're getting financial updates. You're trying to start and think about your planning of what internal systems do we need to change immediately? What's going to affect us right away where we need to make that immediate change? And a lot of this goes back to due diligence, right? You're planning this during due diligence. You have your 100-day checklist. And that's where it comes from. Your 100-day checklist is literally just, OK, here's what we learned in due diligence. And here's how we then take that and execute upon it. And so your day 31 through 60 is like you're looking at your critical systems. You're being proactive with your client and vendor communications. You're also measuring employee satisfaction. That is something that I think is often missed in integration. Absolutely. And post-acquisition is like, where are we at with these people? We need to be measuring that. And post-acquisition, you should be measuring that likely every 30 days. Every 30 to 60 days, you should be touching base and making sure that your employees are satisfied

because without your employees, you don't have clients. Yeah, absolutely. That DD element that you were talking about there, at what point you'd start formulating a plan, obviously, on the run-up to completion? At what point would you share that plan with the other side, with the vendor that you're acquiring? Yeah. We would share the 100-day checklist pretty close. So it's like, hey, here's our plan for how we intend to integrate the company into our company. And you want their feedback on it. They know their business better than you do. And so they could give you feedback of like, oh, no, you don't want to touch that system right away. That's critical. It's going to cause chaos with the team. Or, yep, that's a great system that you should change right away. I think the bigger thing that people need to focus on when they're creating that 100-day checklist is that you need to minimize the client changes as much as possible. So like we said, business as usual, you don't want anything. You don't want to come in and be like, oh, well, guess what? Now you're going to communicate with us on Slack instead of Teams. And now you're going to upload your receipts through this software instead of manually giving

them to us. Everything should be really, really kept the same. And your focus in that first six months should be on those critical systems that make a difference to you that are all internal based. You can mess with your employees a little bit more than you can mess with your clients. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of people are always worried about a brand change, if a brand change is going to be appropriate in a transaction. What's your thoughts and feelings around how that should be phased in? I know it can change from transaction to transaction, but from a vendor's point of view, whenever I mention to them there's going to be a brand change at some point, you can see them tighten up. Oh, I've had this brand for a long time. Our clients know us as that brand, but actually when the brand does change, they realize that it was actually the individual and the people that they're speaking to rather than the name above the door. But from your experience, it'd be great to hear about the brand change. Yeah. So I have not actually done a brand change at acquisition. We brought in the acquired companies and we kind of rolled them up under an umbrella. Looking back on that,

I do think that there are some mistakes that we potentially made. One of those is that now they're confused. They're getting an invoice from the parent company, but all the communication is coming from the company that they just acquired. So there's a lot of confusion that can happen with the clients. And then I think there's also some confusion with the employees. It's like, well, who are we now? What's our company name? What are we doing? But when you think about the infrastructure changes that have to be made to switch that brand really, really quickly, oftentimes it's not doable. You're not going to be able to change the email addresses and everything else that quickly without disrupting and causing a lot of chaos. So I think there's two sides of it. One is it creates confusion if you're not super clear on the branding from day one. And it also creates a lot of chaos if you're like, we have to make change this brand right now. The other thing that I think people don't think about is their brand awareness and really scoring that. You should have somebody that if you don't have someone on your

team that can measure what the brand awareness is and what their SEO traction is. There's so much that goes into it. And I'm not a marketing wizard. I'm not going to pretend like I am, but there's more that I know that can help someone make a decision whether they should change the branding from day one or if they should wait and phase that in. Our approach was that we would roll the companies in after one year and change the brand after one year. Which sounds like a nice soft landing. You've got the phasing out period. The clients are getting used to the new name. And even if it's, I don't know, Ashley, part of the road group, for example, that kind of narrative. And you're right. And even down at the most basic level, we've had a client before where they've taken over. The brand got changed immediately. I think it was day one or two. But you still had the people answering the phones under the old company name. The clients were getting confused. And actually, some of the people that were working on the reception didn't know which, but have been communicating with them what brand to answer the phone to now, which was just crazy for me to hear. So on this playbook that you've just described in there,

Ashley, does it matter or differentiate from the size of firm? Obviously, I don't know the types of firms or sizes you've dealt with, but people, our listeners here, some will be 100 million plus and others will be a 500K, 600K turnover business. So it'd be great to get your opinion on that. I don't think it matters. A firm is a firm and acquisition is acquisition. You're just talking at a different level of scale. So everybody should have this 100-day checklist. Everyone should have an integration plan and everyone should start integration during due diligence. Yeah. And I guess that, you know, talking to leadership or talking to other members of the team, that might be easier for a smaller firm than a larger firm. Of course, larger firm, it probably would be that leadership as you described, where if it's a smaller firm where there's four or five employees, you might be able to get in front of them a little bit earlier for whatever reason. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's going to change your communication, right? When you're talking about a large scale communication versus a much smaller scale

communication. I integrated a firm that was five employees and I integrated a firm that was 45 employees. So it definitely changes the scale, but I think the underlying communication strategies, the underlying integration strategies, that's all the same. It just makes it a little bit more complex. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the issues and problems that could arise, as you just said, they remain the same. It doesn't matter about the size of business. They're just slightly different look to them. Yeah. Okay. And then from the seller's point of view, obviously for a seller, when they're selling and they've got the deferred consideration, they want to really protect that deferred consideration and make sure it's a successful integration. So from a seller's perspective, what would be your advice to them to really help that integration side of things and life generally after post-acquisition? Yeah. So I think it depends. It depends on the seller's role post-acquisition. So if the seller is literally just selling it, washing their hands and walking away, that presents a different set of issues than

if the seller is going to be involved and maybe has a position with the company post-acquisition. So I think there's two sides to that. If the seller is not going to be involved, then getting that information from the seller from the very beginning is very, very important. If the seller is going to be involved, making sure that the seller is aligned with the vision and the direction that the company is going to go, because I've also seen that it's like, well, this is my baby and this is the way I do it. And they don't want to change because this is how it's always been done. So making sure that you're really aligned, but from a seller's perspective, I do think it's all about their comfort level and their trust in you as the acquirer, right? If you can build that level of trust with them. And I like to say this, like when you're going in and evaluating a company, the first thing you should look at is like, can I be friends with this person? Do I like this person? Forget about the business, forget about everything else. Do I fundamentally like this person? And can I see myself being friends with this person? Because that is the base of building that trust and understanding

if you could work with that person. I always say, I'm going to say it wrong because I say these wrong all the time, but slow to hire, quick to fire. Think of that in the same way as you're doing this acquisition. You cannot rush into this. You have to be very meticulous and build that trust and relationship with the seller. And then from a seller's perspective, you need to make sure that you can trust the people that are acquiring your company, like that you built this. This is your life. This is your legacy. And if you don't have that relationship back and forth with the acquirer, then you're not going to feel comfortable communicating. You're not going to feel comfortable buying the vision and the strategy and the direction that they want to go. Yeah. I've always said as well, as much as it can be, rather than sitting down in business surroundings, if you like, in an office somewhere, having a formal conversation after the first few meetings, and it feels like there's an alignment here, go for dinner, go for lunch, socialize, get to really know each other and understand each other because there will be problems. There's never such a thing as a smooth integration. We can reduce and mitigate as much as that. But at least at that point where you've built up the

foundations of a good relationship, as you said, you can have that communication and it'll be so much easier and better if you've got that underlying relationship there as well. But yeah, people find that weird when I suggest it. They're like, why would I go out for? You need to know them. You've got to be working with them. You need to at least know you're going to get along with them. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure that you can be friends. And if you can't be friends, then you should not buy their company. Yeah. On the seller side, and you picked up on it just a minute ago, that making sure that you're aligned with the vision. So even if your business is still quite, I don't know, back in the 1980s and you maybe haven't moved with technology and the firm is acquiring you is supercharged AI automation technology. Even though that business doesn't do it just yet, at least you know that's the direction we want to go. So as these changes start being implemented, you're not going to be in the way. You're not going to be an obstacle that's pushing back saying, no, that's too quick. Because ultimately as well, depending on a certain age of the individual, if they approach retirement, that's the reason for sale.

Often the people underneath them, the team, are embracing this going, great, we're heading into the 21st century properly. We're adopting technology. But if you're seeing to try and stop the changes, then that can cause friction, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You have to make sure that there's alignment. And then you have to make, even if the seller is no longer involved in the operation, those employees, I guarantee, have a relationship with that seller. They're going to go and they're going to be talking to that seller, regardless of whether that seller is involved or not. And if that seller is then feeding the employees like, oh yeah, I don't believe in this, or I don't believe in this direction, then guess what? Then you're going to have all these negative employees. And when you have negative employees, guess what happens? You have client churn. When you have client churn, you're damaging your acquisition, right? It's the most important thing is ensuring that you maintain your clients. And how do you maintain your clients? Ensuring that you have employee satisfaction. Because at the end of the day, we are selling a relationship. And that relationship is what is going to make or break your acquisition. Yeah, no, absolutely. So are there any examples you can give us on horror stories and things that

have gone really well? Has there been some horror stories where a seller has just been a nightmare from the start post-transaction? Yes, just not aligned, right? Just so stuck in the fact that... Keep it fluffy. You don't need to go into details. Yeah, just more not aligned with the direction and the vision, I think more than anything. Wanting to maintain control, but not being in a position of control anymore. And I think that that's really hard for a seller. Like I said, this is blood, sweat, and tears that they've put into this company that now they're selling. And the second that they feel like it's moving in a different direction than what they feel is best, it's really hard for them to give up that control. And so I think this all goes back to that alignment. Do you have the alignment? Does the seller understand the vision and the direction that you want to take this company and the changes that you want to make to make it be five times, 10 times more successful than it was when you had it? And I think that's the

understanding, but it all goes down to personalities. And it's, can you be friends? Do you understand what's happening? And are you willing to make the sacrifices to get it to where it needs to be? And I think a lot of that then also ties back into how you structure the deal, right? You want to make sure that there's an earn out period or, you know, there's different ways that you could structure it and be creative with the deal to make sure that you get that seller alignment from the very beginning. Yeah. And sometimes as well, with all of that planning and making sure that you have got that in your head, you've got that alignment, even still, we're human beings, right? And I've seen it many, many times where actually on the lead up to it, they feel very comfortable with everything and then actually sign dotted line and that feeling comes rushing over them and all some things change and they have a different feeling because they're on that precipice of actually letting go of their baby, of their legacy, et cetera. So that's interesting to see. And I've seen that where owners not change their mind as such, but there's certain areas that they've shifted on and they do struggle with it. And I think,

you know, for acquirers, and I'm sure you agree, you've got to have that understanding and empathy there that they will be going through this really strange and surreal emotional time as a seller. Yeah, definitely. And that's important, right? I personally struggle with empathy. I'm not a very empathetic person. That's why I'm really, really good at operations because I'm like, yeah, forget about all this. It's very black and white. This is what we're doing. But it's something I've learned. It's something that going through these acquisitions has taught me to be very empathetic to how people are thinking and feeling because that's like the base of change management. If you can get them to understand where they're coming from in their perspective, and then teach them and show them a new way, and then get their buy-in, then all the change management becomes so much easier. Yeah. Really interesting insight. Well, look, I think we're coming to the end of the conversation, Ashley, so I appreciate your insights so far. But before we leave, everyone just want to leave wriggling their heads as they stop watching this. What would be the three top tips for you

for any acquirer or seller to focus on from an integration point of view, first of all? Yeah. I think first is that the integration starts before you even get to the LOI. Like when you're looking for a business to buy, create your IVP, your ideal business profile, then take your due diligence, and then that turns into your integration planning and the roadmap that you're going to use to create... The roadmap that you're going to create from your due diligence essentially directly turns into your 100-day checklist. The other advice that I have is put people first. Without them, you really have nothing. They're the most important aspect of the integration. Culture is critical to evaluate during due diligence. And like I said, without the people, you have nothing. And employee well-being and retention directly drives client retention, which then directly drives investment success. And the last tip that I would say is that you need to just make sure you're communicating proactively. So you have to be 10 steps ahead of the employee. You have to be thinking about everything that they're going to think before they even think about it. You have to tell them

before they even think about it. Communicate in every way possible because people, they learn differently. And if you can figure out what makes these people tick, then you will be successful in your post-merger acquisition and integration periods because you're getting an understanding of who they are as people. Those would be my three. I think it's communicate, put people first, and then also make sure that you are very, very thorough and plan your integration during due diligence. I think that is the number one thing that most people miss. Yep. No, fantastic. And all of that information on the people side is going to be with the vendor, the selling party. You're going to be able to get that inside track on them right from the very start. So that goes back to communication and that relationship piece. And one thing I will just add there from a vendor point of view, I always try to make sure that they speak to other firms that the acquirer has acquired as well. Because I think that just gives them a nice inside track of what the transactional process is like, but also what is life like post-transaction.

Whoops and all, all the good stories, the bad stories, just so they can feel like they've gotten fully prepared about what's going to happen there. And if the acquirer tries not to introduce you to people that they've acquired, there's some red flags there. I think there's some problems. Maybe you should maybe look at other options. Yeah, definitely. I think it's just important. Communication is number one, right? Make sure that you can be friends, make sure that you understand the process and make sure that you're happy at the end of the day, right? You may be being rolled up and being a part of this company, which means you need to believe in the trajectory or you may be retiring and moving on. And either of those situations is great and wonderful, but you just have to make sure that the communication is there and that there's going to be road bumps. There's going to be pickups across the way, right? No acquisition is perfect, no integration is perfect, but it's how you react to those situations and the negativity that's going to come that will then determine your success. Yeah, I love that. And like most things in life, preparation is key. From the seller's point of view, preparation, getting their business

sale ready to increase valuation, make it easy, make yourself more attractive. But from the acquirer's side, yeah, doing the hard yards in that DV perspective before even the transaction goes through is going to help post-transaction. And let's face it, that's really where the work starts. It's not when the deal gets done, it's making it successful afterwards. Yeah, the deal is not the hard part. It's the integration that's the hard part. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Well, Ashley, thank you. Thank you so much for that. And just before we do close out, it's not often that we have U.S. guests on. So how is the market over in the U.S. at the moment? Is it as alive as it is over here in the U.K.? It is booming. It is wild. There's so much acquisition activity happening. I've never ever seen this much before. Companies are getting acquired left and right. There's a lot of private equity that's coming in. They're doing big roll-ups of companies. It's an interesting landscape. And there are a lot of opportunities for learning, I think, on both

sides of the coin. So I'm super grateful that I was able to speak to you today, share a little bit of this knowledge that I've been able to gain on my own going through both being acquired and acquiring other firms, because I do think that there's not enough people talking about it. There's not enough people talking about the hard work that goes into this and what they need to do to be successful. And at the end of the day, we all want to see this industry flourish. And we want to see these investments come and help grow and expand the industry. We don't want to see this negative banter go back and forth about, oh, private equity this, private equity that. I've seen private equity do amazing things, and I've seen private equity do not amazing things. And I think we're just getting started with the acquisitions. This is just like the tip of the iceberg. So I'm really excited to see what happens and what transpires and how people learn and grow as they acquire new firms. Likewise. I wholeheartedly agree on everything you just said there. Likewise, in the UK, I mean, it's been very busy for the last two or three years.

No sign of slowing down whatsoever at the moment. And for me, it'll be interesting. We've already seen a couple of the private equity flips already, but we'll start seeing how they progress. I'm very interested to see how the music stops at some point, how many cycles there are, but we'll be interested in that. But I think you're right. Not many people are talking about the integration piece, both pre and post transaction. Everyone, a lot of these podcasts or conversations you have is actually around what types of businesses you're looking for, what general alignment around clients, et cetera, and then actually what deal structure looks like and what the valuations are rather than what goes on behind the scenes to make these transactions successful. So it's great to have your perspective on that, Ashley. I appreciate your time. But yeah, hopefully meet you in person at some point. Yeah. Thanks, Ashley. Take care.